Shyfted Decision '08

[11111]

Who are you all voting for this year? I'm still voting for Ron Paul even though he didn't win the Republican Primary. He's a Libertarian for those of you who don't know.

Here's some information:

www.campaignforliberty.com/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_%28U.S.%29
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism

[Shyft Trakia-Vorga VahtiDahl]

Ron Paul/Jesse Ventura Libertarian for win.

[futurefed]

Ron Paul is also quite the Christian Zealot, is he not? (That's really a question there.)

Here's who I want.



P.S.

I'm not sure if that will show up how I want it...

[kaian]

Holy shit, that's amazing. Good choice, too.

Thing about Ron Paul is, no matter how much of a Christian zealot he is, he's such a strong supporter of state and Constitutional rights he he wouldn't impose his personal religious or social beliefs on the nation. That's a major point in his favor.

I haven't decided who I'm voting for yet, although I know it won't be McCain.

[Shyft Trakia-Vorga VahtiDahl]

I love you Futurefed! Its so nice to see you (sort of) again! Let's here it for Futurefed!

In other news Ron Paul and Viking Ventura aren't exactly pro war on terror. Ventura has knocked the 'liberation' of Iraq as a blind racist attack and that whole oil grabbing thing. Ventura has always been the kind of guy who seems to place a lot of emphasis on talking tough, but after hearing him talk some lately I think he might have some good ideas, too.

Listening to Ron Paul talk has made me notice some thing new about him: he is an excellent speaker. He never falters, stutters, or forgets what he is about to say next. He makes it very believable that his words come from his own mind. Small detail, but I like that about him.

His choice to focus on internet advertising was a brilliant idea. Some people think that his popularity on the internet means that he is just a part of a fad, but them internetters can take some shit real seriously, too!

PS: every one knows that Chtulhu has been dead for centuries}=<)> Other wise, he could totally take Viking Ventura.

[thefunkygrail]

Just a couple of reminders about Ron Paul's political stances:
-Ron Paul does not believe in the separation of church and state.
-He introduced a constitutional amendment in 1997 to give states the power to prohibit flag burning. This is widely considered to be a violation of the first amendment.
-He voted against the net neutrality bill.
-Ron Paul is aggressively anti-abortion and has used legislation to impose his views on the American people. He introduced The Sanctity of Life bill in 2005 that would have defined human life as beginning at conception. He sees it as his duty as a libertarian to protect life, no matter the consequences.
- He opposes the Federal administration of the death penalty on the grounds that there are too many mistakes and it is disproportionately used against low-income defendants. On the other hand, he continues to support state use of capital punishment, even though state courts often experience the same pitfalls.
-Ron Paul voted against an amendment to the House Appropriations Bill in 1999 to federally fund any adoption by two individuals who are not legally married, effectively banning same-sex couples from adopting children in D.C. The same was not true for married couples.
-He opposes the Supreme Court ruling that sodomy laws are unconstitutional.
-Ron Paul holds that climate change is not a "major problem threatening civilization."
-He contends that gender-equal pay is a violation of the concept of a voluntary contract.
-He opposes federal funding for needle-exchange programs that could reduce the transmission of blood-borne illnesses such as HIV.
-He supports the inclusion of Creationism in science classrooms.
-Opposes the inclusion of sexual orientation in the Employment Non-Discrimination Act.

Although there are many stances that Ron Paul holds that align with the progressive agenda, he is still a conservative. Although he claims to be a libertarian and does hold many libertarian views, not all of his intended policies truly support individual rights and freedoms, especially those of women and minorities.

[Shyft Trakia-Vorga VahtiDahl]

Are you just pointing out flaws or are you in favor of some one else? Who does thefunkygrail want to win?

...And why.

[11111]

Aug 6, 2008 10:14:04 GMT -6 thefunkygrail said:

Just a couple of reminders about Ron Paul's political stances:
1.Ron Paul does not believe in the separation of church and state.
2.He introduced a constitutional amendment in 1997 to give states the power to prohibit flag burning. This is widely considered to be a violation of the first amendment.
3.He voted against the net neutrality bill.
4.Ron Paul is aggressively anti-abortion and has used legislation to impose his views on the American people. He introduced The Sanctity of Life bill in 2005 that would have defined human life as beginning at conception. He sees it as his duty as a libertarian to protect life, no matter the consequences.
5.He opposes the Federal administration of the death penalty on the grounds that there are too many mistakes and it is disproportionately used against low-income defendants. On the other hand, he continues to support state use of capital punishment, even though state courts often experience the same pitfalls.
6.Ron Paul voted against an amendment to the House Appropriations Bill in 1999 to federally fund any adoption by two individuals who are not legally married, effectively banning same-sex couples from adopting children in D.C. The same was not true for married couples.
7.He opposes the Supreme Court ruling that sodomy laws are unconstitutional.
8.Ron Paul holds that climate change is not a "major problem threatening civilization."
9.He contends that gender-equal pay is a violation of the concept of a voluntary contract.
10.He opposes federal funding for needle-exchange programs that could reduce the transmission of blood-borne illnesses such as HIV.
11.He supports the inclusion of Creationism in science classrooms.
12.Opposes the inclusion of sexual orientation in the Employment Non-Discrimination Act.

Although there are many stances that Ron Paul holds that align with the progressive agenda, he is still a conservative. Although he claims to be a libertarian and does hold many libertarian views, not all of his intended policies truly support individual rights and freedoms, especially those of women and minorities.

Numbered and then responded to. These are MY opinions keep in mind. Feel free to disagree:

1. Not something I am worried about considering it is constitutional and would be extremely hard to change.
2. I would never burn a flag, it's a stupid way to protest. In fact, any way is a stupid way to protest. No one likes a protester, it is highly unprofessional and childish. If I saw people protesting in my favor I might even go so far as to change my opinion simply to dissociate myself with fools. Besides that, I hold the flag as a symbol of freedom and I find myself to be very patriotic, a word which unfortunately has many meanings these days.
3. Net Neutrality is something that would work itself out in the consumers favor if the free market were to work as planned. The fact that people are once again relying on the government to do the work for them in this field sickens me. Government is not here to babysit us or run our lives, it is here to punish the unjust. The Internet, although large and a free space for information, is still a network of privately run sectors and the rules should be decided by the people who own them
4. One of the things I disagree with him on personally. I believe abortion is the mothers choice. There's too many damned people around anyways :-X
5. I'm on the fence with the Death Penalty, no comment.
6. I don't know much about adoption, but we fund married couples to adopt? I don't feel that my tax money is being used properly in that case. Said things should be left open to charity.
7. I guess I would disagree, although I would never take part in sodomy anyways...the thought disgusts me.
8. I don't believe that climate change is a threat either. Please do not respond to this opinion in this thread though, open another thread for the arguments on climate change.
9. I don't agree with him on this.
10. I oppose this as well. I don't believe my tax money should fund any programs that I personally don't benefit from. I am a very selfish individual, but when you work your way up from ground zero it's hard to watch your money go away so quickly.
11. I think it should be a choice. If students want to learn Creationism, they can take a class for that. It needs no part in a standard science classroom, there wouldn't be enough information for even a chapter of a book.
12. I'm on the fence with this. I have certain preferences in life that I feel I was born with, but if someone discriminates against me for them, so be it. There is no wrong as long as they are justified.


I'm writing this at what is supposed to be a period of sleep for me, so naturally I am very tired. There are probably holes all over my arguments, but I guess I'll post this anyways :P

[thefunkygrail]

Aug 6, 2008 14:42:03 GMT -6 Shyft Trakia-Vorga VahtiDahl said:

Are you just pointing out flaws or are you in favor of some one else? Who does thefunkygrail want to win?

...And why.

Just a list of things that people don't commonly associate with Ron Paul. I have found that many of my friends started out very enthusiastically supporting Paul, but when they realized that many ideas that were extremely important to them differed significantly from Paul's they changed their minds. I believe Ron Paul is a very principled man and has made a significant impact on this election, but I don't think he's the savior that many people want him to be.

And yes, I'm voting for Barack.

[thefunkygrail]

Very nice analysis, Gabber. It's good to see someone comparing their own views with those of their preferred candidates. Of course, I do disagree with many of your stances, but that could probably be inferred by my original post. I have found that many people I talk to about Paul are not aware of these stances and have not spent the time to research his views on these important issues. Of course, this is the case with all of the candidates, but I have found it to be especially true with the hype surrounding Paul as well as the lack of media analysis of his views.

[11111]

Aug 7, 2008 14:47:49 GMT -6 thefunkygrail said:

Very nice analysis, Gabber. It's good to see someone comparing their own views with those of their preferred candidates. Of course, I do disagree with many of your stances, but that could probably be inferred by my original post. I have found that many people I talk to about Paul are not aware of these stances and have not spent the time to research his views on these important issues. Of course, this is the case with all of the candidates, but I have found it to be especially true with the hype surrounding Paul as well as the lack of media analysis of his views.

Yeah, I find that very abundant with Paul fans as well.

[Shyft Trakia-Vorga VahtiDahl]

I've been watching the debates and hearing people talk. To be honest, I haven't been doing much else on these subjects. What I've gathered is that Obama is smooth and McCain has no idea how to present his ideas- but both of them have dangerous policies. Both of them want to spend us in to oblivion. Both of them are asking for big government, even though McCain might not think so. It's garbage, and though McCain is more socially conservative, I don't think that either of them are better than one an other as far as their ability to help the country.

If the anarchy comes, Obama's going to want to solve it with communism and McCain will call for martial law. Fuck em. Ron Paul is a genius. He's made it clear that he doesn't support pro choice or gay marriage but he's also come to terms with the fact that these are not issues that the government should control. Besides, those issues aren't going to mean shit if the economy collapses.

[kitsu]

Obama.

My argument:

It's either Obama or McCain. That's how it's going to go. I'm not going to vote for some third-party so I can tell everyone I did so; I don't think I'm punk enough for that. Well, if I were punk, I wouldn't vote at all. Which will probably happen anyway, unless I get off my ass and register.

Even though Biden is pretty bad... He's pretty tight with the RIAA, and he's no fan of net neutrality. Still, the less close to what we currently have, the better.

[kaian]

the less close to what we currently have, the better.

I agree. Although it sucks that in reality, all it really comes down to is which is "the lesser of two evils." But in this case, I'm going to go with Obama.

And Kitsu/Josh, you can register on election day. All you need is your driver's license. It shouldn't take more than a few minutes, tops - depending on how crowded the polling place is, of course. I registered the day of two years ago, and it worked out fine.

[Shyft Trakia-Vorga VahtiDahl]

Well, as every one in the country knows, Obama won. I guess... that this topic's over. Locked.